| Q 2345: Water marks on my
Carrara marble, According to Maurizio,
marble shouldn't even be it the kitchen. My marble supplier tall,
dark , handsome and Italian dreamy voice and all, told me marble in the
kitchen is an Italian must. It sounds as though I must have it re-honed,
Is there nothing I can do to help cut down on spotting around my sink, and
do you impregnate or not. Thank you, Stephanie, July 30 |
R1:
Dear Stephanie: Although I'm NOT tall, dark and handsome, I'm Italian, too!
There are two schools of thoughts about marble in the kitchen. One goes:
"Marble is such a pain in the neck that the only thing you can do is
to look at it! You can't touch it with anything!" While the other one is:
"My uncle Tony has a white marble worktop in his bakery and he uses and
abuses that thing six days from Sunday, and it's still gorgeous!" Quite
apart, wouldn't you say?
Now the big $64 question is: Who right and who's wrong?
Strangely, they are both right!
Northern Europe and North America have no stone culture to speak of, and
their perception of marble is that of a perfectly shiny finished surface,
that has to stay like that, totally unscathed, for ever and ever! On the
other hand, Anthony the baker's relatives were raised in an environment
where stone looks, well ... like stone! And the more it's "lived" the better
it looks!
Yes, I always advise people to stay away from marble in the kitchen, but
the reason why I do that is because I live and operate in North America,
and the prevalent perception of marble and its performance herein is dead
set within the school of thoughts #1. And I must deal with THAT reality,
because I can't teach people HOW they should like their marble, can I! (probably
it's because I don't have the dreamy voice of your Italian contractor!!)
That said, if he was convincing enough to "convert" you to the way Southern
European perceive their marbles, then I'm the first one not to have problems
at having marble in a kitchen. Yes, have it sealed with an impregnator:
When it's hone finished, the stone's pores are more open that if it were
polished. Maurizio |
Q 2338: I have some Statuary
White Marble that I recently have had installed our bathroom
(shower surround, floor and counter). A couple of questions....
1. There are some what look like water marks
on some of the stones. I have used "poultice" with some success. How else
could I get these out?
2. There are a couple of "marble polishes" on the market, i.e. Italian Craftsman
polish, Weinman etc. Do these do anything? They do mention that they should
not be used on the floor. Does this mean that they will make the floor too
slippery?
3. After I get the marble "clean", I plan on using a sealer on the grout
and marble. Should I wax the floor as well? Thanks, Brian, July 29 |
| R2:
Hi Brian, I have Carrara marble in my kitchen,
2" honed slab. I love the way it looks , but I too have developed water
marks, haven't got my back from expert but from what I have read. Were out
of luck by fixing the problem ourselves. Rehoning or polishing seems to
be the only remedy, however, I haven't heard how to prevent this from happening
again. Stephanie, USA. |
R1:
Dear Brian: A little confused, aren't you! Now, what did the people who
sold and installed
the marble in your house tell you about your problem? Just curious!...
1. "Water marks" were not generated by water and are not stains; therefore
no poultice will do you any good. They are surface damages and they have
to be removed by refinishing the stone surface. Marble is polished by abrasion
and friction, not by putting some finish onto it, then buffing it up.
2. I don't know about the Weinman product, but I'm very familiar with the
Italian Craftsman one. It's one of the best stone dressing that money can
buy, but will do squat about your problem. Check my Dos and Don'ts You'll
find what you need to do to solve your problem.
3. Sealing your marble won't do you any good, unless you may envision the
possibility of spilling coffee or cooking oil in your bathroom and let them
sit on your stone for at least half an hour or so. No sealer under the sun
will help you prevent the "water marks" that you have now. Waxing it? Harmless
but useless at the same time, if you ask me. You can use a
good-quality car wax on the walls of your shower stall to help against the
accumulation of soap film. Maurizio, USA |
| Q 2332: My mother has had a
white and light brown striated marble table
top for about 30 years and has changed residences several
times without incurring any chips or scratches. However, recently my sister
gave her a large glazed flower pot. My mother first asked if the pot was
leakproof and glazed so that leaks wouldn't occur and was given assurances
that it was. She therefore placed the pot on the marble and added flowers
and water. One week later, the flowers were dead and she removed the pot
only to find that water had leaked at the base of the pot and leached
into the marble. Do you know of any safe way to remove the stains?
Bob, July 29 |
R1:
Dear Bob: Get hold of a professional stone refinisher and let them assess
the nature of
the stains (IF they are stains), and what to do next. Maurizio, USA |
Q 2330: We have a new countertop
and we really love it. I
loved the color..it was honed..no shine and it looks fabulous
Two days ago, I noticed a few white stains. Not sure if coffee, lemon
or the evergreen spray cleaner I've used.
This countertop is only 3 months old. It was only sealed once, I think.
Could it be the sealer got removed?
Can you please recommend a natural way to take the white stains? We tried
the 2 stain marble remover strong and mild. It didn't work. Please recommend
a nice product for us to try without destroying the marble. Thanks.
Maritess, July 29, |
| R1: Dear Maritess:
Lemon or evergreen cleaner did the job all right! Now you need a professional
stone refinisher to repair the surface damages (not stains) that you have.,
Maurizio, USA |
| |
| Q 2320: I left a plant sitting
on the fireplace hearth after I had watered it and when
I moved the plant the next day there was a milky white stain on the black
marble. The surface does not appear to be etched but the stain
seems to have gone "into" the marble. Soap and water had no effect except
to hide the stain until the surface was dried when the stain came back.
The folks who installed the fireplace hearth tried some type of paste cleaner,
a "marble restoration kit" and some spray-on cleaner and only managed to
lighten the stain slightly and leave an area where they worked showing in
the finish. Is there anything I can do to get this white stain out
of the black marble? Thanks, Linda, July 27 |
R1:
Dear Linda: What you have, believe it or not, is a real bad etch mark. Store-bought
restoration kits are not tough enough to do the job (for obvious reasons,
they have to be user-friendly). You have only one option: Get hold of a
professionals stone refinisher.
Maurizio, USA |
| Q 2240: Hi, we have
light gray tiles throughout our house
and we dropped items and chipped a few, is there a product
on the market to repair them? Also we have a marble table with glass
rings and spots, how do we go about removing same? Ebba, Australia.
July 15 |
| R1:
Dear Ebba: I don't know about the chipped tiles. I do know about the "water
spots and rings". No you can't remove them: They are out already!!
They are surface damages (not stains) and some of the marble actually came
off. You need a professional stone refinisher to take care of your problem.
Maurizio, USA |
| Q 2214: I installed a White
Carrara marble in my bathroom. After a year all the marble has yellow
stains. I would like to know if it is something wrong in the installation.
Or the quality of the marble, can there be bad quality marble Carrara or
all white marble stains yellow. Or is something wrong in the surface where
the marble was installed? Can there be some kind of water filtration? Or
fungus? How can I fix this? and return the original color of the white Carrara
stone? Thanks, Beatriz, July 12 |
| R7:
Surely this defect depends from the material used to fix this marble. Maybe
the fixer used mastic or resin and the oil in this material after some months
entered inside the material. Never forgott that stone (some more, some less)
absorbs liquid, and the fixer must waterproof the marble or must use the
right material. Tiscalinet, Italy |
R6:
There are many kind of white Carrara. There are also some types that get
yellow after laying, it's normal.
If you make the right treatment with hydro-repellent solvent, you solve
the problem for ever, otherwise you can try to use oxygen-water 90% (be
careful!!!) mixed with water (50%) and white.....(we call bicarbonato di
sodio), then put on the floor for a couple of hours.
If the marble will be a little more white ok, otherwise you have to keep
the yellow ground for ever! I'm now wonder why the supplier didn't tell
these things before? Good luck, Nicola, Italy. |
R5:
This is the typical problem of material installed with cement and without
white glue.
All crystalline materials must be installed with white glue (Mapei or similar).
If cement is used, sometimes some impurity in cement (such as iron) tend
to rust over the years and turn material to yellow. This happens when the
surrounding is humid. Giuliano, Geologist, Stone Consultant. Italy. |
R4:
DEAR BEATRIZ, I AM ANSWERING ONLY BECAUSE YOUR NAME REMIND ME A WONDERFUL
GIRLFRIEND I HAD IN BOGOTA'.
THE YELLOW STAIN ON CARRARA IS DUE ONLY TO THE MATERIAL YOU USED FOR INSTALLING,
OR PRESENCE OF PIECES OF IRON OR SOMETHING ELSE UNDER THE FLOOR.
IF YOU INSTALLED WITH NORMAL CEMENT MIXED WITH SAND,OR IF YOU HAVE IRON
MINERALS IN THE SAND, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE YELLOW STAINS ON CARRARA, IT'
S NOT DUE TO MARBLE, IT'S DUE TO THE CEMENT OR THE SAND OR BOTH.
ALWAYS USE PRODUCTS FOR CERAMICS, WHITE PRODUCTS THAT YOU NORMALLY FIND
IN THE STORES.
NOW YOU CAN FIX THE PROBLEM IN THIS WAY: YOU MAKE A "PASTE" WITH
POWDER OF GYPSUM (IT'S LIKE A CEMENT) MIXED WITH OXYGENATED WATER (HYDROGEN
PEROXIDE LIKE YOU USE FOR MEDICALS) AT THE HIGHER PERCENTAGE YOU FIND IN
THE MARKET.
YOU MIX AND MAKE A PASTE, CONSISTENCY LIKE THAT OF TOOTHPASTE AND PUT IT
ON STAINS, LEAVING UNTIL IT' S HARD. AFTERWARDS REMOVE AND CLEAN WITH NORMAL
WATER. DO IT SEVERAL TIMES UNTIL YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEM. IT'S THE ONLY WAY.
TRY TO CHECK IF YOU HAVE LOT OF WATER UNDER THE FLOOR, IT' S IMPORTANT.
GOOD LUCK, BEATRIZ, WHAT A NICE NAME YOU HAVE. VINICIO, ITALY |
R3: Dear
Beatriz: There must be something wrong with the installation. Check all
around your stall and you will see that grout and calk are missing (maybe
the tiles had been set "butt-joint"; that'll do it, all right!)
White Carrara marble has a considerable amount of iron mineral within. When
water finds its way behind the tiles, moisture will migrate through the
core of the stone, thus oxidizing the iron mineral. In other words, your
tile are rusted through and through. It's terminal. The only solution is
to rip out the whole thing and start all over. Sorry about the bad news.
Maurizio, USA |
| R2:
Probably the installer used black cement that is not good for this or the
quality of White Marble is too soft. You have to change the marble and replace
it with a good quality marble and install with the right product. With best
regards, Alessandro, Italy. |
R1:
Dear Mrs. Beatriz, the problem is there was ferrous parts in the water used
to install the Bianco Carrara.
It's not very simple to resolve, there are many different liquid products
to put on the Marble.
Please contact me, I can try to resolve your problem. Best regards, Davini,
Italy. |
Dear fellow
participants from Italy (all of you): It's quite amazing to realize that,
all of a sudden, when one particular marble (White Carrara) gets into the
picture, a whole army of experts from Italy come out of the woodwork and
post answers! What's also amazing is that none of those answers is even
close to being the right one!
Sorry, fellows! (Mi dispiace, amici!) Nicola states that had they used some
sort of penetrating sealer (trattamento antimacchia, it's called over there)
our inquirer would have solved the problem for ever. Well, while the old
saying goes: "NEVER say NEVER", there are a few "nevers" (or "for evers",
for that matter; same difference!) that can be said. One of them is: Never
believe blindly the advertisement pitch of a type of product! Sealers for
stone (over here they are also called "Impregnators") only help preventing
stains coming from without, not from within like in this case. (I ought
to know: I make one of those products!)
Second, they are not for ever. Third Hydrogen Peroxide (Acqua ossigenata)
doesn't do the first thing about metal stains. It's only good at removing
organic and inorganic stains (still, only when they're generated from the
surface of the stone down, not viceversa), period.
Giuliano, Vinicio (by the way, "molto romantico"!) and Alessandro, all make
reference to the setting material. It should have been white thinset, they
all say. That's right, but how the heck do you guys know that they didn't
use white thinset? Because of the reported problem? For starters, gray thinset
may darken the stone but will never make it rust. Second -- and most important
-- if the type of setting material were the culprit, the possible problems
consequent to that would emerge within a couple of weeks,not certainly after
one year! Everybody is missing the mark big time, here!
Can't you guys read what the lady's saying?! AFTER A YEAR! Same thing goes
with Davini's comment: How can the (hypothetical) presence of iron (ferrous)
in the water cause any damage after one year??! The truth is that "White
Carrara" marbles -- all of them -- contain a certain percentage of iron
mineral (it's not an hypothetical statement, it's a plain fact) and if,
somehow, you have a constant migration of moisture through the core of the
stone -- like in the case when water finds its way behind and/or under the
tiles -- the marble will get oxidized and show on the surface in the form
of yellow, rusty stains. It's that simple! And to you all: Forget about
the Hydrogen Peroxide (acqua ossigenata) thing to remove rust stains (from
the surface, that is) it just won't work.
Maurizio, USA |
Hi All, Thanks
for all your answers and help. I will buy the products and try them out.
I wanted to know how can I know if the marble Carrara White is of bad quality
or soft white Carrara? Is there any test I can make? I wanted you to know
that from the time I built the house and installation was done, only three
years have passed.
My installer says he used white Mapei glue to install the Bianco Carrara.
I wonder if the cement that is under Mapei glue could pass moisture through
the Mapei glue to the white marble? Thanks again. Beatriz |
R4:
Caro Maurizio, hai ragione su quello che dici, perņ soltanto in parte !
Difatti ci sono alcuni titpi di Carrara che cambiano " sempre" sia adoperando
collanti bianchi o con malete pozzolaniche.
Altri, nemmeno se vengono posati con ferro diventano gialli.
Come mai?
Di fatto c'č che purtroppo a Carrara queste cose si sanno, ma nn vengono
dette per paura di svilire il prodotto che comunque se fosse trattato prima
si risolverebbero comunque.
Per tua informazione, comunque l'acqua ossigenata funziona, eccome se funziona.
Hai mai provato? Saluti, Nicola. |
R3:
You will see a good product if:
1) It must be compact and of fine grain
2) to check this a tile must sound when touched
3) also you have to see water absorption by putting some water on dry tile;
if the marble absorbs too much you will see darker spots or water, If not
the marble is compact and good.
4) A good White Carrara marble must not have too many holes "taroli", (just
some is ok and normal, but not too much.) With best regards. Alessandro,
Italy |
R2:
HI BEATRIZ, YOU WANT TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM ? ASK DIRECTLY TO MAURIZIO, LEAVING
THE OTHER SUGGESTIONS, OTHERWISE YOU BECAME CRAZY.
I THINK THAT ANY SUGGESTION WAS SENT TO YOU BECAUSE OF A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,
THAT' S WHY I SENT YOU MINE.
BUT ALL OF US WERE DESTROYED FROM MAURIZIO' S ANALYSIS, HE' S GOING TO BE
THE MARBLE PROBLEMS NOBEL PRIZE 2002.
MAURIZIO, MA DOVE CAZZO TI ERI CACCIATO ? HO SEMPRE SOGNATO DI CONOSCERE
UN ESPERTO COME TE, MI AVRESTI RISOLTO UN SACCO DI ROGNE IN GIRO PER IL
MONDO. VINICIO, Italy |
R1: Dear
Beatriz: There's no such a thing like a bad quality White Carrara marble
-- at least not in the sense that you mean (soft???). All White Carrara
marbles contain a certain percentage of iron mineral within. Like I said,
don't look for answers that can go back a year or better. If you have a
problem NOW, the answer can only be found in the recent past! Like I said
in my answer, check your grout and caulk lines. You will find out,without
doubt, that some grout or caulk is missing and therefore water found its
way behind and under your marble tiles. That's all there is to it, no other
explanation. That's typical (but not exclusive) to a "butt-joint" installation
(when the tiles are set tight to one another. It's a faulty installation
in a shower enclosure).
And again, it's terminal. Don't waste your time trying useless products
or procedures. It will only increase your frustration! (Mark my words, because
I KNOW you won't believe me right now and you WILL try something, before
giving in!! It's human nature at work!) Have the whole thing ripped out
and start all over, making sure that when they install the new tiles (no
matter what they are made of) they leave 1/16" gap for proper grouting.
Maurizio, USA |
Dear All,
especially Maurizio,
I do want to apologize I didn't mean to create such a discussion.
I am really sorry. When I posted the question, my husband was decided that
he would sue the person who sold us the marble.
It is a person who lives in Italy. My decorator is also an Italian. He was
angry with the both of them. My husband was really angry because we also
have a friend who worked with the same decorator and the same marble supplier,
has the same Carrara marble and his marble is also yellowing. So, the two
where going to sue the supplier together. One of the complains was, as someone
in site said: Why didn't the supplier say something in this regard?
I only was preventing him to sue. Because I think, you always know how you
begin a battle but never know how much it will cost you at the end. So I
thought, if I can find something to fix it, to prevent all this hassle,
it was a good idea.
Well, when I read all the messages. I bought the oxygen water, did the mix
and it worked. Many of the yellow stains went. Not all. But many did.
When this happened I thought something is wrong! In the messages, it was
also clear that after so long, the stains will not disappear. So I asked
my husband, who was hysterical at the time Ii posted the question, and did
not want to talk about the issue only sue, sue with his friend. They were
only insulting the supplier, etc. You have to understand that all the bathroom
walls, floor, shower, etc covered with the white Carrara marble. It was
a very expensive job.
So when the stains disappeared, I told my husband how strange that the stains
disappear? At that moment, my husband was happier, and told me that from
the very beginning after the installer did the job the marble began to yellow.
He had a person, some kind of specialist, come in and every time he brought
a mix, that would charge him 50 pound, put it on the marble and whiten the
yellow spots. But eventually the building of the house finished, and the
specialist got lost (maybe he went to rip off someone else). And the stone
got yellow stains all over again.
I feel a bit bad because you were really a lot of help. I am sorry a heated
discussion came about. I really want to say "thank you" because
the mix did work for me. I would like to say that the site is wonderful
& helpful and without the site I would be in some lawyers office today.
But I also need to apologize, because I did not have all the information
with me. And at the moment, I only wrote what I knew ie: after living in
the house the marble began to yellow. I never knew what my husband told
me, after I had posted the question. I am really sorry.
My husband and his friend do insist that the marble is of bad quality, someone
(some kind of specialist, another one!!) told my friend who has the same
problem, that good quality Carrara marble does not stain. I really don't
know. What I could read from the site is that there is no bad quality marble.
That is why I posted this question on my second post. Because they where
insisting to sue the supplier because the marble was of bad quality. I hope
Maurizio can forgive me and all the Italians that helped can also forgive
me for the bad time I caused you because I did not all the information available.
I still have another problem with the white marble. But I will leave this
for another post.
Thank you all very much, Sorry for the discomfort. Take care. Beatriz |
| R1:
YES, WE WON THE STAINS ( MORE OR LESS ). R4 / R5 / R6 WERE THE BEST ANSWERS,
(ME, NICOLA AND GIULIANO) I NEVER TRIED WITH BICARBONATE, LIKE NICOLA SAID,
INSTEAD OF GYPSUM. I' LL DO IT TO SEE WHAT' S BETTER. WHEN WILL YOU PAY
FOR A PIZZA TO US ? ALL THE BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR CARRARA STAINS. VINICIO,
ITALY. July 22. |
R2:
Dear all: I guess I owe you an apology. First off, we learned now that the
problem started from the get-go, and not after a year. Had I known that,
my diagnosis would have been different and probably in line with one of
those that you guys posted. I must also conclude that the yellowing of the
stone was not really rust (trust me guys, you can't
remove rust with Hydrogen Peroxide), but some other inorganic matter that,
as Nicola says, may be typical of a few Carrara marbles. That said, I want
you all to understand that "debate" is my middle name and my specialty!!
It's part of my character and, no matter how it sounds, never means to insult
anybody (unless I openly state so, which is not at all unusual!!) I believe
that debate is good, constructive and ... a lot of fun, too!
What's most important, is that our debate produced a positive result. I'm
glad that Beatriz was able to solve her problem thanks to you guys (not
certainly me, in this case!) Ciao everybody, Maurizio. |
Dear ALL,
and Maurizio,
Thanks again.
Hope to visit you All and invite you for a PIZZA.
Just for the records, I used the gypsum powder mix with the oxygen water
40%.
I could not find higher % in the market.
My next problem with the same white marble is that it has dark grayish stains
in the shape of spilled water. But water was not spilled. But it looks like
it comes from under the stone. Not from the top. It is just in the floor,
not on the walls or shower or sink tabletop. Dont ask me when it started?
(HAHAHA, I will have to investigate more!). My husband got in love with
the oxygen water and put it pure on the floor I don't know what reaction
that can do But it seems that this grayish water shaped stains are getting
whiter. Can you comment on this? It is OK to do this? Is The Rosa Verona
that is in the floor as decoration bleeding, or is it the grout color that
is bleeding. I don't know. Thanks for all the feedback. Regards, Beatriz |
| Q 2183: A slice of lemon was
removed from a drink and left lying on a marble table top
overnight. The result is a perfect impression
of the lemon slice on the marble. Is there anything that can
be done to remove it? Am I right in thinking that the acidic lemon juice
has etched into the marble? Tony, July 8 |
R1:
Dear Tony: Well, if you don't like the "perfect impression" of the lemon
slice, you'll have to get a professional stone refinisher to fix the damage
for you. It's not a DIY project.
Maurizio, USA |
| A 2150: I recently bought a
60 year old house that has a beautiful 400 sq. ft. marble patio. The marble
is in 12 inch squares, each of which are 1 inch thick. Over time the
patio has stained. I would like to clean it, then seal it to retard
further stains. My questions are: 1) is this a project that a reasonably
sophisticated do-it-yourselfer can accomplish? 2) What process and products
would I use to do it? 3) Assuming you do not recommend doing it myself,
what should I look for in a contractor do determine if he knows what he
is talking about? I am in Portland, OR. Thanks! Rob, July 2 |
| R1:
Dear Rob: The answer to your first question is: NO CAN DO!! Just forget
it. Maurizio, USA |
From your response
it appears I was right to investigate before I took the word of the various
local people I called who told me about various cleaning and sealing products.
I read your article.
I want to clarify a couple things: 1) the finish on my patio is not "polished".
I'm not sure if it ever was, but I would hesitate to have slick finish on
an outdoor floor, especially in Oregon!
2) The stains on the patio are mostly dirt. I have power washed it a couple
times over the last 7 years, and the dirt does come out with water. The
problem is the finish is porous, so it gets stained again.
3) The "honing" process you describe would seem to result in a slick
polished finish. I don't think I want that, for safety reasons. But is that
the only way to get the stains out and keep the surface from being prone
to staining again? The fact that I can get it pretty clean with power washing
(or with scrubbing - I've done some hands and knees work on it too) would
seem to indicate that perhaps I can get it clean short of honing it to a
polish. But that does not prevent re-staining.
Thanks very much for your advice. Rob |
| A 2147: I'm looking to buy
some marble care products for 1) removing
stains like vinegar and 2) general
cleaning. Also looking into how I can whiten
my grouting lines --- it is so dark now that I can see rectangular
marble slabs now! Thanks. Winston, July 1 |
| R1: Dear
Winston: Vinegar does not stain, it corrodes (etches) the marble surface.
Those "stains" are actually surface damages. To "remove" them, you have
to implement a full fledged restoration procedure. Don't get scared, though!
... If they are light to medium etches (which is typically the case with
vinegar) you can repair the damage by using a polishing compound for marble
designed for DIYers. Also, read my answer to the 2146 posting right below
yours. Maurizio, USA |
| |
| A 2130: How can
I clean our white marble Chinese lions
who have been guarding our front door and have become stained
very badly with plant debris. I appreciate they will never
return to their snowy white state but they look very sad at the moment and
in dire need of tender loving care. Sue, June 27 |
| R1:
Dear Sue: Try to clean it with acetone first (available at any hardware
store) to remove any possible resinous residue from the plants, Then if
it's still stained, brush is lightly with a solution of water and household
bleach (and don't forget the elbow grease!! In this case it has to come
in the form of repetition, not pressure). Neither one of the two chemicals
will affect the marble and its natural patina. Maurizio, USA |
